Occassional Starting Problem - Relay?

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:24 pm

Sometimes I turn the key and my car just wont start, almost like the battery is too weak. A couple more tries and it starts right up.

Then lately Ill notice when I have this problem Ill hear what sounds like a relay "crackling" under the dash, to the bottom left of my steering wheel.

I want to open up and look but its just been too cold out, and the problem comes and goes...

Im guessing I need a relay replaced, what is it?

Thank you

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:27 pm

Here's a few photos from my 1981 528i of the relays for reference. Both relays are the same. Yours may differ due to model year etc.

If the image links fail try here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0r0y0l7yxzge ... u7xaa?dl=0

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:51 pm

Thanks for that!!

That gives me enough info to order it what I need...

But curious... Anybody know exactly do these relays do?
I noticed a little noise coming from under there w my wipers on..

Thanks again!

Ralph in Socal · Post by **Ralph in Socal** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:26 pm

Before you replace anything clean all of your battery cable connections and your ground terminations. Take them apart and wire brush everything until shiny and remove all signs of corrosion. Reassemble with de-oxit or battery terminal spray for protection.

You can throw all the parts at it but if you have a bad ground connection you're wasting your time. Inspect your battery cables as well since they will corrode internally. Test for resistance if you can.

Ralph

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:09 pm

Ralph in Socal wrote:Before you replace anything clean all of your battery cable connections and your ground terminations. Take them apart and wire brush everything until shiny and remove all signs of corrosion. Reassemble with de-oxit or battery terminal spray for protection.

You can throw all the parts at it but if you have a bad ground connection you're wasting your time. Inspect your battery cables as well since they will corrode internally. Test for resistance if you can.

Ralph

Amen to that. Don't look at them and say yeah, they're nice and clean, remove them, clean them, and reinstall them. I can't count the number of times clean connections weren't making good contact.

GripGreg · Post by **GripGreg** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:09 pm

Same thing happened to me and cleaning about ten grounds on both ends made a huge difference!

Good luck,,you'll need it to have patience.
Greg

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:59 pm

Thanks guys i will check my grounds....
I did replace the ground strap and clean,

But Ill do it again!!

Much appreciated!

RonDwyer · Post by **RonDwyer** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:28 pm

Run a jumper direct to the solenoid like you are trying to hotwire the car. If there is the same problem then it is either the grounds, engine to chassis, or chassis to battery. I have a direct to negative connection from my engine. Or it is the positive cable. Corrosion at the battery, in the connectors, or to the starter again in the terminals. I solder my new cables to ensure they wont corrode.

If that hot wiring and cleaning don't do it, you need a starter. Solenoid is not an easily replaceable part for the home hobbyist.

Electrical troubleshooting is a process of starting with the easiest bypass them working upstream to try to figure out where the problem happens.

Years ago I restored an OpelGT. Didn't start too easily, then I noticed smoke in the rear. My brake line was on fire! It found a ground through my stainless braided brake lines. I forgot to put the chassis ground strap on. Duh!

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:31 pm

CBRadio did you solve your problem? My car caught your car's cold, cranks, won't start. Definitely the ignition switch in steering column. I got the wiring end of the ignition cylinder out. Jeez there's a lot of brass filings in there, also some plastic bits.
<img src="https://www.dropbox.com/s/lk5xpb5h1it56 ... M.jpg?dl=0">
Has gone quickly from slight crackling/shorting sometimes to maybe it will make contact if I wiggle key just right. Cranks fine but won't start. I tried jumping at the end of the ignition harness under the dash, red to green for on, dash lights go on, red to black to activate starter, turns over fine but won't fire at all. Can anyone tell me what the purple wire is? E21 board says its ACC, I also tried with it jumped to red and still nothing. Also tried swapping out the relay under the plug end of ignition harness from key. I guess what I'm asking is can someone help me hotwire my car.

RonDwyer · Post by **RonDwyer** » Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:51 pm

Randy,

You need a starter switch. If the parts you need to connect to make it run after cranking are roached, no amount of work-around will help unless you want to see your car in flames on the side of the 405 at an inopportune time & place.

Plan a bit of dismantling of the steering column. Removal of the lock cylinder is not easy as it was assembled with a frangible bolt. It is drillable, Start with a small new drill and then make a larger hole with a bigger drill. A large enough hole makes it a quick job with a stout easy-out. Don't skimp, if you break too small of an easy-out in an undersized hole they don't drill out at all. The steering column is held in with all 13 mm bolts. I did this on my E9 coupe years ago.

Good luck!

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:21 pm

RonDwyer wrote:Randy,

You need a starter switch. If the parts you need to connect to make it run after cranking are roached, no amount of work-around will help unless you want to see your car in flames on the side of the 405 at an inopportune time & place.

Plan a bit of dismantling of the steering column. Removal of the lock cylinder is not easy as it was assembled with a frangible bolt. It is drillable, Start with a small new drill and then make a larger hole with a bigger drill. A large enough hole makes it a quick job with a stout easy-out. Don't skimp, if you break too small of an easy-out in an undersized hole they don't drill out at all. The steering column is held in with all 13 mm bolts. I did this on my E9 coupe years ago.

Good luck!

Rather than drill out the fracture bolts, I've started them with a center punch or small
chisel, get half a turn or so and they come out easily. Another trick that might be even
easier is to use a dremmel and cut a slot, then use a straight blade screwdriver.
Unless you drill the head off entirely I would not use an easy out.

And if you just need to change the switch and not the lock, just remove the small grub
screw from the barrel and work the switch out. It fights a little, but does come out and
is much easier than removing the whole assembly.

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:38 pm

Thanks guys, I erred in thinking the grub screw was a plastic tab the needed to be pushed to remove the switch and probably mucked up the torx(?) slot by pushing hard on it with a cut off six penny nail. Aargh! the switch separated leaving half inside the cylinder, and I thought I was going to get off easy when it started to ease out. The key barrel is ok though so I don't think I'll need to drop the column. If I'm lucky I'll be able to get that little bugger of a screw out, and the rest of the guts of the switch will slide right out. If I have to I'll drill the screw out, unless there's a reason not to, then tap the hole for a new screw. I'm assuming the need for dropping the column is because of steering lock? Mine has t worked since I got the car. Does the key barrel come out to the right or left? And is the column lock the only thing holding it in? And thankfully there's a replace switch in the U.S. for a mere $65 from ECS, dealer $99.

Thanks for the assistance.

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:21 pm

The grub screw is just a small slotted screw, usually painted over. I've never had a problem getting them out, just getting a small enough screwdriver. The wires on the end of the switch make it a tight fit coming out, but it does come out. They used the same switch from Bav's well into the E28 era which is why it's so available.

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:47 pm

New switch is in, happened to have an eyeglass repair kit in my tool box with a tiny but stout little screwdriver for the grub screw.

Still won't start, cranks fine. Got fuel 👍🏼, got fuel pump👍🏼, got spark👍🏼, dunno, thinking it's the ICM which someone previously suggested might be failing based on my previous high (4750) rpm cutting out problem. Any way to test the ICM? Anyone have a spare I could try?

CBradio · Post by **CBradio** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:42 pm

I am revisiting this...

I still have this problem, I assumed it was the five prong relay under the dash that would click- I replaced it (replacement was violet relay)... No change.

Car still gives me problems in occassikn but the episodes are getting longer. Today it took like ten minutes I was really worried I was going to get stuck.

If I try enough times to start it starts smoking from my ignition switch!!!
This was before and after the purple relay swap.

I dont know whats going on here. Starter doesnt click, Ill try a few times to turn the car on, sometimes a smack under the steering wheel seems to help.

Once it starts, its fine- is my ignition switch going or is something else the culprit? I will try next time it gives me the problem to jump the car from the starter--- in this case starter doesnt even click, car doesnt crank, but then it "catches" and starts up fine.

Aside from ignition switch, what else could it be? Ive cleaned all my grounds!

Edit:
I thought it was that relay...
Also I noticed #2 in diagram is a little "wobbly" in the drum-
More like lopsided, I can push it down a couple of mm into the drum..
Dont know if this is normal; my radio, lights, windows etc will work even when the ignition wont catch