Sleeve and needle bearing removal

[maybeillbuyit]

I just removed the automatic trans from my car and am cleaning things up getting ready for the 5spd. I was going to remove the rear main seal and replace it. When I was looking at the spot where the new sealed pilot bearing will go I realized Ive never heard how to remove what looks like a sleeve and needle bearing, which is the old style before they went to sealed bearings. Whats the procedure to remove theses? Ive never seen any mention of this in all the 5 spd swap how tos. It doesn't look like theres a way to get in behind the bearing with a puller. The old bread trick?

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2fe6 by Dave Grayson, on Flickr

[keehn]

You know about the bread trick too? I would absolutely do that; it hasn't failed me yet with pressing out pilot bearings.

For those who DON'T know about using bread to remove pilot bearings, you squeeze pieces of bread inside the bearing race and use a socket with extension in reverse (or other solid round metal object). As you tap the socket/extension inwards, the bread will compress and push out the bearing. Expect to add bread as necessary until the bearing is fully removed.

Why bread? It acts like hydraulic fluid, but is too dense to squeeze out the small openings that fluid would. Also, bread is easy to clean out and will not damage anything.

Mike

[maybeillbuyit]

OK thx Mike. Thats what Ill do. I was kind of surprised to see that type of bearing in there.I've never had to use this method but was aware of it although I wasnt sure it was applicable as there doesn't appear to be a way for the bread to get behind the sleeve. We shall see.
Thx for the reply.

[maybeillbuyit]

OK well that didnt work at all. The bread didn't do anything. The problem I see is this is just a sleeve and its smooth metal all the way to the bottom of the hole.
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2ff4 by Dave Grayson, on Flickr

I rigged up a home made puller and force threaded a 1/2 black steel pipe into the hole. The puller bent then the threads popped out. That sleeve is really hard metal and the threads on the pipe can't grab it very well, although well enough to bend the puller
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2ff0 by Dave Grayson, on Flickr

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2ff3 by Dave Grayson, on Flickr

Hopefully someone whos done the swap and encountered this can comment. I've tried searching and havent found a single comment anywhere on the webs addressing this.

[keehn]

Hmmm.... that's odd.

If you look at the TIS, there should be a gap behind the pilot bearing and the bearing wall. Here's what the TIS shows. Refer to #'s 1 and 2:



Perhaps your bearing was pressed in too far for bread to have any effect?

Mike

[maybeillbuyit]

Mike. Thx for comment. The TIS diagram you have shows a manual bellhousing with slave cylinder. I just removed an automatic transmission, and according to realoem diagram they use diff parts fro the auto torque converter. In the includeded diagram it shows part 1 and 2. Should be a sleeve and needle bearing. Which I dont have strangely. It looks to me its just a solid piece of metal thats smooth all the way to the bottom of the hole. There definitely isnt a bearing in there


https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpa ... Id=11_0312

[maybeillbuyit]

OK so this mystery may be solved. I also made a posting regarding this issue on Mye28. And have been in contact with my very good friend RalphinSocal. It looks like this car being an early model built 10/76 has the early crank with a 21 mm hole. This crank uses a 12x21 mm needle bearing vs the later and obviously more common 32 mm bearing. Heres a better cleaned up pic of the area in question. That hole is 21mm

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_301c by Dave Grayson, on Flickr

Also heres a pic of what the back of the crank looks on my junk b32 engine
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_301a by Dave Grayson, on Flickr

This must be pretty rare to see , I've never heard of it. I Just thought these cars all had the same 32mm hole. Anyone else ever seen this?

[keehn]

Mike. Thx for comment. The TIS diagram you have shows a manual bellhousing with slave cylinder. I just removed an automatic transmission, and according to realoem diagram they use diff parts fro the auto torque converter. In the includeded diagram it shows part 1 and 2. Should be a sleeve and needle bearing. Which I dont have strangely. It looks to me its just a solid piece of metal thats smooth all the way to the bottom of the hole. There definitely isnt a bearing in there


https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showpa ... Id=11_0312

Oh! Well, THAT's your problem!!!

I retract my previous advice, slushboxes are another thing all together.

Mike

[maybeillbuyit]

Haha, Yeah soon to be remedied from auto to manual. Although this isn't really an auto or manual issue. This crank is odd because its an early version. In fact this pertains to you as your car is an early version. Come to think of it, whats the end of your crankshaft look like? 21mm hole or 32 mm hole?? You can confirm this in a certain way.

[Lock]

That's weird! Can confirm my '79 auto had the standard 32 mm hole with a brass bushing, and it came out with a normal pilot bearing puller. I didn't measure it, but I'm going to guess that the hole in that bushing was 21mm. At some point BMW may have realized they needed to put a bushing in there, otherwise the crank (and engine) was junk once that hole was worn.

[maybeillbuyit]

Lock, Brass bushing? OK, Like I said I was expecting to find either a 32 mm bearing or the bushing and smaller 21 mm needle bearing but not this. I guess prior to 77 or maybe 78 they just had a 21mm hole. Very odd indeed. So far I am the only person to actually have seen this, at least reported it. I just ordered the 21mm needle bearing so hopefully I'll be moving on with this soon.
Still curious what is in Mikes car as his is an early car

[maybeillbuyit]

Just thought I would add to this post. I just got the older style needle bearing delivered. heres a pick of the newer style sealed bearing I was expecting to find in the back of the crank and the old style needle bearing I have to use Yippee. Made in Slovakia no less
Ill be installing soon I hope

[Champie12]

Its too bad I'm just seeing this thread now! But I did the 3 speed auto swap to a 5 speed over last Christmas. I too was surprised to see the different early crank with a 21mm hole. I was bitter-sweet when I saw it cause I didn't have to remove a pilot bearing but I had already bought the sealed 32x12 pilot bearing to install. My car is a 02/1976 car. But yeah I had to buy the correct 12x21mm needle bearing from BMW and it went in and works without any issues. I've always used a getrag 242 4 speed input shaft (removed from trans), a hammer, and a bunch of soaking wet newspaper to force out the sealed type pilot bearings. Works a charm!

Best of luck with the rest of your project!

[maybeillbuyit]

Champie, OK thx for the info. I hadn't heard of newspaper before. Sounds a good option to the bread. I've had my eye out for a broken 4 spd for a while . I had an opportunely to get my hands on one a while ago but I had to pull it from the car and I was too lazy. Hoping to find one locally someday for the input shaft.
Thx for the reply, It seems very odd that there hasn't been anyone else mention this bearing size difference before. I also already had the pilot bearing although I can use it in my 635 when I do the swap on that car.