First off, this is not Wyatt. I'm his father. I signed him up on this forum for his benefit. First I have to fix his car.
He has a 77 530I four speed and he locked up the rear end. He also twisted the drive shaft in half in the process. I'm going to assume it's the spiders for now. Before I take it out and open it up I'd like to know a couple things. First thing is can I find the parts somewhere. Are rear end parts available? Secondly. Is an entire rear end available new or used? If so, where's the best source? Is it best to swap out the rear end as opposed to replacing the spider gear assembly? Thirdly. Are there any good books in circulation or drawings of the rear ens available online? And last. Will any other rear end interchange? I have the Chiltons but that's usually got just enough information to help to change the windshield wipers.
Is there any information I've left out? All I know id it's a 530I with a four speed and he keeps saying something about E-12. Whatever that means.
I know Mopars like the back of my hand but this foreign stuff is foreign to me. So point me in a good direction so I can get this thing fixed.
Hello and Help
-
JodyStevens
- Posts: 347
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:58 am
- Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Go here and plug in your vin and it will bring up all part numbers and diagrams for your vehicle.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do
'78 Euro 528i Rubinrot Metallic. Who else has this color?
Hello and Help
Wyatt's father,
welcome. The e12 is the BMW model designation. Any rear from another e12 would fit, and like Mopars there are several rear end ratios available. If you can remind me where you're located there might be someone nearby that can help.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Wyatt <kkrinne@hotmail.com>
To: tech_forum <tech_forum@firstfives.org>
Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 3:55 pm
Subject: Hello and Help
#AOLMsgPart_1_794827d5-6041-4091-b559-6cc4336bb0f4 td{color: black;} First off, this is not Wyatt. I'm his father. I signed him up on this forum for his benefit. First I have to fix his car.
He has a 77 530I four speed and he locked up the rear end. He also twisted the drive shaft in half in the process. I'm going to assume it's the spiders for now. Before I take it out and open it up I'd like to know a couple things. First thing is can I find the parts somewhere. Are rear end parts available? Secondly. Is an entire rear end available new or used? If so, where's the best source? Is it best to swap out the rear end as opposed to replacing the spider gear assembly? Thirdly. Are there any good books in circulation or drawings of the rear ens available online? And last. Will any other rear end interchange? I have the Chiltons but that's usually got just enough information to help to change the windshield wipers.
Is there any information I've left out? All I know id it's a 530I with a four speed and he keeps saying something about E-12. Whatever that means.
I know Mopars like the back of my hand but this foreign stuff is foreign to me. So point me in a good direction so I can get this thing fixed.
Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)
welcome. The e12 is the BMW model designation. Any rear from another e12 would fit, and like Mopars there are several rear end ratios available. If you can remind me where you're located there might be someone nearby that can help.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Wyatt <kkrinne@hotmail.com>
To: tech_forum <tech_forum@firstfives.org>
Sent: Mon, Sep 15, 2014 3:55 pm
Subject: Hello and Help
#AOLMsgPart_1_794827d5-6041-4091-b559-6cc4336bb0f4 td{color: black;} First off, this is not Wyatt. I'm his father. I signed him up on this forum for his benefit. First I have to fix his car.
He has a 77 530I four speed and he locked up the rear end. He also twisted the drive shaft in half in the process. I'm going to assume it's the spiders for now. Before I take it out and open it up I'd like to know a couple things. First thing is can I find the parts somewhere. Are rear end parts available? Secondly. Is an entire rear end available new or used? If so, where's the best source? Is it best to swap out the rear end as opposed to replacing the spider gear assembly? Thirdly. Are there any good books in circulation or drawings of the rear ens available online? And last. Will any other rear end interchange? I have the Chiltons but that's usually got just enough information to help to change the windshield wipers.
Is there any information I've left out? All I know id it's a 530I with a four speed and he keeps saying something about E-12. Whatever that means.
I know Mopars like the back of my hand but this foreign stuff is foreign to me. So point me in a good direction so I can get this thing fixed.
Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)
...tom
and now an '80 528i, the 7th and last in the series
1981 528i, no. 6 in a series... only 270 k miles
and now an '80 528i, the 7th and last in the series
1981 528i, no. 6 in a series... only 270 k miles
Rear End
Welcome!
Tell Wyatt this is not a Mopar!! Meaning it won't stand up to popping the clutch,,obviously.
It's a semi grocery getter, a GT in sheep's clothing. Meaning, if given the right respect, it'll last a long time. Even at very high speeds!
It can easily be a road racer, but, NOT a hot rod!! No more popping the clutch!
Once rollin' at about 15MPH, you can step on it, but no poppin' the clutch!
This is for you to sit him down to explain the differences.
I also suggest you have him help you fix it; just a thought.
Maybe you can go to the for 'sale/wanted' section here & ask for a rr end?
Good luck,,,,Greg
Ps,,The only tools to be used are metric. You may already know this?
Tell Wyatt this is not a Mopar!! Meaning it won't stand up to popping the clutch,,obviously.
It's a semi grocery getter, a GT in sheep's clothing. Meaning, if given the right respect, it'll last a long time. Even at very high speeds!
It can easily be a road racer, but, NOT a hot rod!! No more popping the clutch!
Once rollin' at about 15MPH, you can step on it, but no poppin' the clutch!
This is for you to sit him down to explain the differences.
I also suggest you have him help you fix it; just a thought.
Maybe you can go to the for 'sale/wanted' section here & ask for a rr end?
Good luck,,,,Greg
Ps,,The only tools to be used are metric. You may already know this?
Rosallina/'80 528i
Buster/'82 635Euro
Hit the apex in Long Beach
Buster/'82 635Euro
Hit the apex in Long Beach
https://www.bmwtechinfo.com/repair/main/057en/index.htm
Good luck. My looking at the differential repair procedures concluded it would take a very talented old wizard, with a very extensive selection of special tools to, " Open one up."
Also check the differential body mount for a cracked frame.
Good luck. My looking at the differential repair procedures concluded it would take a very talented old wizard, with a very extensive selection of special tools to, " Open one up."
Also check the differential body mount for a cracked frame.
many followups
first and foremost welcome to the club.
As far as the diff goes there are many on the used market and its not worth the cost to repair that one unless it was a limited slip. Remember metal in the bearings etc. The diff is the same on all the E12s, the E24 630 and 633 as well as the E9 coupes. the BAVARIA has a different ratio. to tell what ratio yours is there are two numbers stamped on the side and then you divide it. For example 10:41 that would be a 4.10 diff. the e12 is like a 3.55 or 3.75 I cant recall. these diffs are often called side loaders. the output flanges just pop out, usually onto your foot. I would get a used diff and replace the three side seals (two output and a big rubber band looking side seal). DONT replace the input unless its leaking. you have to match the torque back on the input and its a pain. Parts are like $30 to do this and use a good quality oil. O year check the diff mount and where it mounts to the body. this is a common fail point.
If you can not find a local pick and pull or parts yard with a good one give Al Taylor an email. he should have about 50 sitting around and his prices are fair. his email is WABMW25@aol.com
I have a local pick and pull near me that has an e12 and Im going after some parts for my car. I can check to see if it has a diff or not.
OK on to the drive shaft that is very concerning. the biggest concern is where did it separate at??? IF it separated in the middle by the center support bearing that's bad. The teeth have to be back in the right spot or the shaft will be out of balance. BAD NEWS most drive shaft shops can not properly balance a BMW drive shaft it takes special tools. you may get lucky and line it back up and order the right nut for it so it wont do it again. That's right if its the spot someone else got ya with bad work. While you are playing with this check the center support bearing and Guibo (rubber and nylon thing between the trans and the shaft). if its cracked or coming apart replace it. REMEMBER DONT CUT THE BAND ON THE NEW GUIBO UNTIL ITS INSTALLED!!
If a new drive shaft is needed I would go used from an e12 otherwise call up drive line of Oregon. they sell the best units and they hold up.
I wouldn't blast your son for spinning wheels just yet. remember the damage could have been there from a previous owner. Without proof or a confession making him do the work will keep it from happening.
Good luck
Sam
As far as the diff goes there are many on the used market and its not worth the cost to repair that one unless it was a limited slip. Remember metal in the bearings etc. The diff is the same on all the E12s, the E24 630 and 633 as well as the E9 coupes. the BAVARIA has a different ratio. to tell what ratio yours is there are two numbers stamped on the side and then you divide it. For example 10:41 that would be a 4.10 diff. the e12 is like a 3.55 or 3.75 I cant recall. these diffs are often called side loaders. the output flanges just pop out, usually onto your foot. I would get a used diff and replace the three side seals (two output and a big rubber band looking side seal). DONT replace the input unless its leaking. you have to match the torque back on the input and its a pain. Parts are like $30 to do this and use a good quality oil. O year check the diff mount and where it mounts to the body. this is a common fail point.
If you can not find a local pick and pull or parts yard with a good one give Al Taylor an email. he should have about 50 sitting around and his prices are fair. his email is WABMW25@aol.com
I have a local pick and pull near me that has an e12 and Im going after some parts for my car. I can check to see if it has a diff or not.
OK on to the drive shaft that is very concerning. the biggest concern is where did it separate at??? IF it separated in the middle by the center support bearing that's bad. The teeth have to be back in the right spot or the shaft will be out of balance. BAD NEWS most drive shaft shops can not properly balance a BMW drive shaft it takes special tools. you may get lucky and line it back up and order the right nut for it so it wont do it again. That's right if its the spot someone else got ya with bad work. While you are playing with this check the center support bearing and Guibo (rubber and nylon thing between the trans and the shaft). if its cracked or coming apart replace it. REMEMBER DONT CUT THE BAND ON THE NEW GUIBO UNTIL ITS INSTALLED!!
If a new drive shaft is needed I would go used from an e12 otherwise call up drive line of Oregon. they sell the best units and they hold up.
I wouldn't blast your son for spinning wheels just yet. remember the damage could have been there from a previous owner. Without proof or a confession making him do the work will keep it from happening.
Good luck
Sam
78 530i 3.5L
80 520/6
71 2002
76 2002 parts
83 635csi Euro
87 325i
88 Toyota 4-Runner
88 Toyota 4-Runner V6
88 Toyota pickup
2017 Toyota Tacoma
1997 F350
2007 Honda Accord
2008 Honda Civic
80 520/6
71 2002
76 2002 parts
83 635csi Euro
87 325i
88 Toyota 4-Runner
88 Toyota 4-Runner V6
88 Toyota pickup
2017 Toyota Tacoma
1997 F350
2007 Honda Accord
2008 Honda Civic
I agree with most of what Merlin said, but disagree with a little and I'll expand a little.
Replacing the assembly is the prudent way to go. It's what's known as a sideloader diff, as everything goes in from the side instead of the back like later ones. There isn't much demand and they rarely fail, so finding a replacement shouldn't be difficult or expensive. But I wouldn't bother with replacing the seals, I've seen them weep and get moist, but never to the point of even a drip. A 77 E12 (as the chassis is known as) would have a 3.45 diff ratio. Some earlier cars and some euro spec cars have different ratios, usually 3.64, but they are hard to find and not a huge difference. But most are 3.45.
If you need a replacement driveshaft that might be a little more difficult, you would need one from a 4 speed E12 from 75-79 or 4 speed E24 (630csi/633csi) from 77-80. And very few driveshaft shops will go anywhere near a BMW driveshaft. They're assembled with a fusion welding process which is apparently very difficult to work with and the joints are staked in place and difficult to R and R.
Replacing the assembly is the prudent way to go. It's what's known as a sideloader diff, as everything goes in from the side instead of the back like later ones. There isn't much demand and they rarely fail, so finding a replacement shouldn't be difficult or expensive. But I wouldn't bother with replacing the seals, I've seen them weep and get moist, but never to the point of even a drip. A 77 E12 (as the chassis is known as) would have a 3.45 diff ratio. Some earlier cars and some euro spec cars have different ratios, usually 3.64, but they are hard to find and not a huge difference. But most are 3.45.
If you need a replacement driveshaft that might be a little more difficult, you would need one from a 4 speed E12 from 75-79 or 4 speed E24 (630csi/633csi) from 77-80. And very few driveshaft shops will go anywhere near a BMW driveshaft. They're assembled with a fusion welding process which is apparently very difficult to work with and the joints are staked in place and difficult to R and R.
Mike W.
1980 528i, 3.5 euro, 5 speed conversion
1981 528i, 3.6, Recaros and more. Project
1998 328is, quick and efficient, but not satisfying
2000 528iit, Vacation mobile/wife's grocery getter
1980 528i, 3.5 euro, 5 speed conversion
1981 528i, 3.6, Recaros and more. Project
1998 328is, quick and efficient, but not satisfying
2000 528iit, Vacation mobile/wife's grocery getter
Thanks for the information guys. Sorry I didn't reply sooner but I have a funky work schedule. I'll probably just replace the entire differential. It looks like a pretty easy job. I'll follow some of the advise here. Greg. I think the unit locked up on downshift. There's a pretty fair chance that it was inevitable that it was doomed to happen sooner or later. If he had the torque to twist the driveshaft in half by dumping the clutch I'd take his engine and put it in my Cuda. I did however caution him to drive it nice as it's a 35 year old car with all the factory components. But. Kids will be kids. I used to do it myself until I decided it was getting a little too expensive. We're in Severance Colorado. About sixty miles North of Denver.