After 10 plus hours labor to R/R Bosch sr995x w/ Bosch sr441x : no start. I connected ignition wire at 6 o’clock position on sr441x and not the 12oclock position per info advising this needs to be done when converting to sr441x. Did not connect the wire that was connected on the original sr995x at 6 o’clock position per recommendations.
I could hear solenoid pinion spinning but not engaging flywheel so I connected the wire that had been connected at 6 o’clock position on orig. sr 995x to the 12 o’clock position and still nothing ,although the pinion spinning more audible but no engagement.
Appreciate any help.
Thanks
Starter Bosch sr441x
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
10 hours? Wow. It's not a 20 minute job, but that's a long time. Whatever.
This thread has a lot of detail on it that I think all applies. https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic ... on-solved/
You shouldn't hear the solenoid spinning, it's an electromagnet that should go in with a click or bang. Now the starter motor may be spinning without engaging the flywheel, but not the solenoid. Start over in a sense, make sure the battery cable is attached to the correct terminal on the starter, and at the battery, and tight and clean. Then you should have a black wire, coming from the ignition that goes apparently goes to the bottom spade terminal. If that doesn't work, try a jumper wire from battery positive to that bottom terminal. If that doesn't work you may have a bad starter. Oh yeah, make sure the ground from the battery to the block is good too.
This thread has a lot of detail on it that I think all applies. https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic ... on-solved/
You shouldn't hear the solenoid spinning, it's an electromagnet that should go in with a click or bang. Now the starter motor may be spinning without engaging the flywheel, but not the solenoid. Start over in a sense, make sure the battery cable is attached to the correct terminal on the starter, and at the battery, and tight and clean. Then you should have a black wire, coming from the ignition that goes apparently goes to the bottom spade terminal. If that doesn't work, try a jumper wire from battery positive to that bottom terminal. If that doesn't work you may have a bad starter. Oh yeah, make sure the ground from the battery to the block is good too.
Mike W.
1980 528i, 3.5 euro, 5 speed conversion
1981 528i, 3.6, Recaros and more. Project
1998 328is, quick and efficient, but not satisfying
2000 528iit, Vacation mobile/wife's grocery getter
1980 528i, 3.5 euro, 5 speed conversion
1981 528i, 3.6, Recaros and more. Project
1998 328is, quick and efficient, but not satisfying
2000 528iit, Vacation mobile/wife's grocery getter
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
I was thinking the same... bad starter or missing teeth on the flywheel? Try pushing the car forward in gear so the position of the flywheel changes. Easy check to be sure the flywheel is ok.
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
Mike thanks:
In reference to the posting you directed me to, I have following questions:
I have red coil and regular polnts.
Trigger point on new sr441x is 6 oclock position. Trigger point on old sr995x was 6 oclock.
On sr995x the 12 oclock position wired to ( + ) at coil. I have thus attached 12 oclock post on sr441x to coil ( + ).
The post you referred me to references running wire from fuse 12 to coil ( + ) and that the 12 oclock post on solenoid should not be used.
What say you .
At least this gives me some hope as only thing have not tried and why would this work. How cold new starter be set up so that one has to not use the 12 oclock post but run a stray wire from fuse to coil ???.
I don’t know how to copy the post you referred me to in reference to in this disc.
Also don’t know if I’m responding to all or you individually or all. What’ the etiquette.
Just thought of something: this comes from 2002 forum and the #12 fuse on 2002 ti would not be same as on my 530i. So this would not work ?
In reference to the posting you directed me to, I have following questions:
I have red coil and regular polnts.
Trigger point on new sr441x is 6 oclock position. Trigger point on old sr995x was 6 oclock.
On sr995x the 12 oclock position wired to ( + ) at coil. I have thus attached 12 oclock post on sr441x to coil ( + ).
The post you referred me to references running wire from fuse 12 to coil ( + ) and that the 12 oclock post on solenoid should not be used.
What say you .
At least this gives me some hope as only thing have not tried and why would this work. How cold new starter be set up so that one has to not use the 12 oclock post but run a stray wire from fuse to coil ???.
I don’t know how to copy the post you referred me to in reference to in this disc.
Also don’t know if I’m responding to all or you individually or all. What’ the etiquette.
Just thought of something: this comes from 2002 forum and the #12 fuse on 2002 ti would not be same as on my 530i. So this would not work ?
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
No worries on etiquette, we're just trying to solve problems. For clarity you might add a couple of paragraph breaks between things.
OK, on the wire going to the coil, it's only used during starting to give a hotter spark during starting. It should fire up and run fine without it, but they did put it there for a reason. Yes, the fuse number on an '02 will probably be different, but wiring up the starter to get it to spin and start the engine should be the same, M10 starters actually interchange with M30, they just typically use a weaker one.
Copy and posting is pretty easy, copy what you want, hit the " button above and paste in the middle. Getting the picture in is a little more complicated, can be done but I won't go into it here.
Back to the starter, hook everything up, don't worry about the wire going to the coil, and turn the key. Get it started and we'll work on the 12V going to the coil. If the key doesn't work, try a wire from the battery + to that 6 o clock position. Be ready to jump, it'll startle you if you're doing it with a jumper.
OK, on the wire going to the coil, it's only used during starting to give a hotter spark during starting. It should fire up and run fine without it, but they did put it there for a reason. Yes, the fuse number on an '02 will probably be different, but wiring up the starter to get it to spin and start the engine should be the same, M10 starters actually interchange with M30, they just typically use a weaker one.
Copy and posting is pretty easy, copy what you want, hit the " button above and paste in the middle. Getting the picture in is a little more complicated, can be done but I won't go into it here.
Back to the starter, hook everything up, don't worry about the wire going to the coil, and turn the key. Get it started and we'll work on the 12V going to the coil. If the key doesn't work, try a wire from the battery + to that 6 o clock position. Be ready to jump, it'll startle you if you're doing it with a jumper.
just got the solenoids swapped and starter back in place. Now I just have to make sure I know which wire is trigger, of the two I have.
1) I have 1 set of wires (terminated on 1 spade connector) that come straight from a relay on the firewall, diver's side
2) then I have a larger gauge set that comes out of an old black loom from down under.
Which is my trigger? I'm thinking the one off the firewall is, but want to make sure.
******SOLVED********
The two wires BROWN/BLACK that come up out of the black loom (from below the alternator area), and have their own black loom, and are terminated to a single spade connector. This connects to the lower connector on the solenoid.
IMG_6524.jpg
I figured it out by putting the test meter leads on the big battery + cable, (connected to solenoid - not battery) and other lead connected to the BLACK/BROW wires. Go tin the car & turned the key to start, and got continuity.
Fortunately, I didn't blow anything except the first solenoid, and being the parts pack-rat I am, I was able to pull one off the shelfed unit & put it on the new starter.
I love the sound & how fast this thing spins.
Mike W.
1980 528i, 3.5 euro, 5 speed conversion
1981 528i, 3.6, Recaros and more. Project
1998 328is, quick and efficient, but not satisfying
2000 528iit, Vacation mobile/wife's grocery getter
1980 528i, 3.5 euro, 5 speed conversion
1981 528i, 3.6, Recaros and more. Project
1998 328is, quick and efficient, but not satisfying
2000 528iit, Vacation mobile/wife's grocery getter
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
When I installed this starter in my last e9 I hooked the 12:00 wire to my coil like the original starter. The ballast resistor became cherry red and started to smoke. As started earlier it is not used and not needed, it is live 100% of the time, not good. On my most recent e9 I put a new starter in and all it did was click. I had a good ground at battery and firewall but when I added a 10G wire from valve cover to fender it worked fine. Grounds are critical. To test starter take a wire with a spade on it and hook to 6:00 position, touch other end to battery, this way you are not reaching around the starter with a hot lead. Good luck.
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
Thanks for the replies guys:
Yesterday trying to start w/ wiring thus; trigger wire at 6 oclock and wire at 12 oclock to coil ( + ). Engine turned over / starter engaging but would not catch - seemed like not getting fuel. Noticed some smoke from engine bay which worried me but thought maybe oil. But based on replies could have been the resistor glowing red - couldn’t see as I was in car starting and didn’t check out after as not aware this was possibility at time.
Now I’m aware will monitor.
Assuming resistor was becoming over heater, does that indicate I need to not connect wire from 12 oclock on solenoid to coil (+ ).
I have tried starting w/ that set up and engine tries to turn over and starter engages but it is not as close to starting as w/ wire to coil from 12 oclock on solenoid.
My next attempt based on 2002 forum will be no wire from solenoid 12 oclock to coil ( + ) but wire from fuel pump fuse to 12 oclock on solenoid as this will not engage resistor and will give fuel. Based on premise that the sr 441x does not need resistor.
Am I going to blow up something w/ this set up ?
Yesterday trying to start w/ wiring thus; trigger wire at 6 oclock and wire at 12 oclock to coil ( + ). Engine turned over / starter engaging but would not catch - seemed like not getting fuel. Noticed some smoke from engine bay which worried me but thought maybe oil. But based on replies could have been the resistor glowing red - couldn’t see as I was in car starting and didn’t check out after as not aware this was possibility at time.
Now I’m aware will monitor.
Assuming resistor was becoming over heater, does that indicate I need to not connect wire from 12 oclock on solenoid to coil (+ ).
I have tried starting w/ that set up and engine tries to turn over and starter engages but it is not as close to starting as w/ wire to coil from 12 oclock on solenoid.
My next attempt based on 2002 forum will be no wire from solenoid 12 oclock to coil ( + ) but wire from fuel pump fuse to 12 oclock on solenoid as this will not engage resistor and will give fuel. Based on premise that the sr 441x does not need resistor.
Am I going to blow up something w/ this set up ?
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
This is from 2002 site and pertains to my situation.
What fuse would I use on e12 - fuel pump ? as it is on when car starting and running - or what would be better fuse ?
How would I hook up to fuse box ? Would it be from bottom or just top ?
This post is from the 2002 forum Mike attached in his post to me. I’ve never done this copy / paste before and I didn’t know how to attach other pertinent ones w/ out losing this one.
So, 1976 car with a blue coil (3 ohm), Pertronix, and an SR441X starter, I had to run a new single wire from hot side of fuse 12 to the positive side of the coil. Just having the black/red resistor wire there not doing anything prevented the car from running. If I plugged it in to the upper terminal on the starter it would fire and then die as soon as I let off the starter. If i didn't plug it in at all i didn't get spark. So just getting rid of it, like completely, out of the car, gone- and using the green/clear wire gives me spark and the engine stays running. Now I've got to try to sync and tune these DCOEs...
Edited December 21, 2021 by johnny02
What fuse would I use on e12 - fuel pump ? as it is on when car starting and running - or what would be better fuse ?
How would I hook up to fuse box ? Would it be from bottom or just top ?
This post is from the 2002 forum Mike attached in his post to me. I’ve never done this copy / paste before and I didn’t know how to attach other pertinent ones w/ out losing this one.
So, 1976 car with a blue coil (3 ohm), Pertronix, and an SR441X starter, I had to run a new single wire from hot side of fuse 12 to the positive side of the coil. Just having the black/red resistor wire there not doing anything prevented the car from running. If I plugged it in to the upper terminal on the starter it would fire and then die as soon as I let off the starter. If i didn't plug it in at all i didn't get spark. So just getting rid of it, like completely, out of the car, gone- and using the green/clear wire gives me spark and the engine stays running. Now I've got to try to sync and tune these DCOEs...
Edited December 21, 2021 by johnny02
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
Do not use the 12:00 terminal, ever. Run a temporary wire from the battery to the coil + terminal and the start the car. If this works you have a bad wire from power source which is a green wire from fuse block in an e9, color should be the same but I have not checked. All of this could be caused by a failing ignition switch.
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
Update on situation: My friend, who is professional mechanic , assessed situation and his verdict was to not connect the solenoid 12 oclock terminal to the coil ( +) . Car started and ran although a little rough. He said that the sr 441x starter has dual dual coil whereas the old 495 x does not. He said not to connect wire from fuse box to coil.
He is Viet Namese man, age 81 , and English not his native language so sometimes our communication difficult. He mentioned difference in my resistor vs new inline resistors which went over my head.
I didn’t take for drive yet. He later called me to ask me to check ohms at 6 oclock on solenoid and if were not zero that he would return and make a change in set up.
Based on his assessment that I do not need to run wire from live fuse to coil and lot of bimmer heads say that is required I am perplexed. I am using red coil and some are using blue coil would that matter. Isn’t difference just capacity of resistor ?
He’ll be by tomorrow and I’ll let you know.
Sorry for all the drama but have to get car running.
He is Viet Namese man, age 81 , and English not his native language so sometimes our communication difficult. He mentioned difference in my resistor vs new inline resistors which went over my head.
I didn’t take for drive yet. He later called me to ask me to check ohms at 6 oclock on solenoid and if were not zero that he would return and make a change in set up.
Based on his assessment that I do not need to run wire from live fuse to coil and lot of bimmer heads say that is required I am perplexed. I am using red coil and some are using blue coil would that matter. Isn’t difference just capacity of resistor ?
He’ll be by tomorrow and I’ll let you know.
Sorry for all the drama but have to get car running.
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
You only run a wire from fuse to coil if you have no power at the coil when you turn ignition key on, period. Looks like you do have power now which is great. Unless I missed it I don’t know which model and year you have. A red coil requires a 1.8 ohm resistor as stated on the coil, the black coil needs a 1.1 ohm resistor, a 528i uses a totally different coil.
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
Thanks, My car is 1978 530i w/ regular distributor. I tried running wire from fuse to coil in starting hope didn’t destroy something this before got your info. Thanks again.
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
My mechanic friend came over yesterday. Car starts and runs w/ ignition wire at 6 oclock position on solenoid of Bosch starter sr 441x and 12 oclock position not wired. He checked w/ his volt meter btwn resistor and ignition and found too much draw - should have been 0.00.
Recommend I set up relay to provide additional power only at start up. Car will start and run fine w/out but this will help in cold weather. Some of his technical info was over my head due to my ignorance and that his native language is Viet Namese I haven't set up yet. Will update when I do.
He says need for this set up is diff btwn build of starters a the two coil of 441x vs old style 995 x one coil ????
He says set up thusly:
I have bosch 4 prong relay.
Terminal 30 - 12v battery source
85 - Ignition
86 - Ground
87 - Resistor / coil.
Recommend I set up relay to provide additional power only at start up. Car will start and run fine w/out but this will help in cold weather. Some of his technical info was over my head due to my ignorance and that his native language is Viet Namese I haven't set up yet. Will update when I do.
He says need for this set up is diff btwn build of starters a the two coil of 441x vs old style 995 x one coil ????
He says set up thusly:
I have bosch 4 prong relay.
Terminal 30 - 12v battery source
85 - Ignition
86 - Ground
87 - Resistor / coil.
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
You don’t need a relay with the 441x, it is a permanent magnet starter and spins much faster than the old one. Old school ones needed this, new ones don’t, don’t make it complicated. I don’t know if your 530i has a ballast resistor or a resistor wire, either way the coil gets only 9v, that is the purpose of the resistor to avoid over heating the coil.
Re: Starter Bosch sr441x
Thanks; Mike W, R Bondi, Hb 528i :
My take is I don’t need but the ignition wire from 6 oclock position on sr 441x to the coil ( - ) position. Has started this way so far.
My car 1978 530i has resistor - 3 inch porcelain piece - on right front fender next to red coil. One end connected to green wire from fuse box and other side connected to ( + ) on red coil.
Is this standard configuration ?
Are all red Bosch coils of this era interchangeable as I have a spare that is just bit larger. I think it is from a 633i ?
Again, thanks all.
I
W , R Bondi, HB 528i
My take is I don’t need but the ignition wire from 6 oclock position on sr 441x to the coil ( - ) position. Has started this way so far.
My car 1978 530i has resistor - 3 inch porcelain piece - on right front fender next to red coil. One end connected to green wire from fuse box and other side connected to ( + ) on red coil.
Is this standard configuration ?
Are all red Bosch coils of this era interchangeable as I have a spare that is just bit larger. I think it is from a 633i ?
Again, thanks all.
I
W , R Bondi, HB 528i