81 528i Overheating, Grinding, and No Start.

[sethg]

I've got an immobilized 528i in my driveway I'm hoping someone can help diagnose.

I picked up a nice looking 528i a few months back, clean body, clean interior, engine sounded perfect. It was a swap, so mileage is unknown. Needed an alternator, so I put a new one in and changed the belts. I moved the distributor to get them all on and off, and had the engine re-timed at a shop after I was finished. It ran pretty well, but idled pretty low (200-300rpm), even when warmed up in idle, unless its been driven for a while. When driving, it didn't have the pickup that the 2.8 would normally have, but otherwise sounded and felt good. No problems shifting into any gears, but sometimes it felt like it would have to "catch" before it reached a gear's power. Had the brakes worked on and replaced a stuck caliper, so the brakes were not grabbing.

Then the other morning going about 70 on the Hwy, I started to lose power and the temp. gauge went up to about the 3/4 mark. I had the pedal close to the floor just to keep speed in the 60s for the last couple minutes before I made it to work. The engine temp didn't get into the red, and I hoped it would be a weekend project

Same thing happened on the way home. So yesterday I let it idle from cold start with the hood open to observe. The temp gauge went past the middle mark, then back down, then back up to about 3/4 mark where it stayed. Pulleys were turning, the engine sounded good, and no leaks were noticed.

Then about 10 minutes or so after starting the engine, a strong vibration and grumbling noise came up suddenly (an effect I think would be much like if A/C was turned on and the battery was dying at the same time). A periodic "click click" was heard about once a second as though a couple fan blades were tapping something while cycling around. I turned the engine off. A few seconds later, I turned the key to Accessory, and a strong vibration and clattery rumble was heard. I turned the key to off. I turned the key back to accessory, and heard the same noise and felt the vibration. I turned the key to off. I waited 10-20 seconds, and turned the key to accessory. The gauges started up, but no noise. I tried to start the engine, and got nothing in response. Not even a tick.

A few hours later, I tried to start the engine and heard the starter just baaarely start to move. I used a jump starter then, and had no better luck. No change today. Battery reads OK. Oil level is OK. Coolant looks good. I don't have a lot of time until spring to work on it, but I spent lots of time fixing up little things, so I'd hate to get rid of the car.

Any ideas?

[alotawatts]

Nice car !
Overheat-
I would revisit the timing
Temp sensor(s)
Is the auxiliary fan working ? It should run continuously with air cond. turned on. Turn your ignition to on, turn on the air and you should here a hum from the fan. You can see/check it through the grill.

[T.Hanson]

That looks like a fine example, too nice to crack the head or lock up the engine.

For quicker answers Google Search any topics from old, previous posts. See the column of menu items on the home page.

Not knowing your garage mechanic experience, what you don't want to do is overheat the engine once or a few times while testing. The heads and head gaskets on these cars are good, but not built for abuse. Generally you've got to peg the heat gauge and ignore it to damage things, but running at the 3/4 mark isn't a good idea.

Flush and fill the cooling system unless you know it's been done in the last year. Water pumps generally weep, leak or make noise. Open, test, run the heaters. Check the fan spins ( Google search for testing procedure ).

Read the FAQ's for good instructions on how to time it, and lots of other things.

Or, show this site to a mechanic. Thirty years old makes these cars not good fits for the current, " Computer plug in," technicians.

[DEMIURGE]

I'm sorry to say this (how I wish I am wrong) - but probably you have locked (blocked) the engine. Your last tests were with "running" engine, but the car was not moving - so we presume - the problem is engine related, not other moving parts as transmission, clutch, drivetrain and differential.
If your battery is fresh and it has no power to turn the starter/engine - so you have mechanical problem. If the battery turns the starter when the engine is cold, but has no power to turn it in warm or hot conditions - again - this is a mechanical problem. Also, you have mentioned something about noise, vibration and clicking - probably you have something broken - piston ring or something which increases the friction piston to cylinder wall, bad bearing, poor oiling.
When you drive - and the engine is hot - everything expands and the friction increases. You compensate this with more stepping on the gas pedal.
Then the engine uses the full power to move the car with 70 and obviously the temp goes up. The rising temperature increases friction and the engine locks more and more.

[Blaise]

I wish I could point you in the right direction, but there are just too many symptoms for me to know where to start. I am guessing that there is just one thing wrong...that led to all the others.

This is just a random thought, but your lose of power made me think of it. Does your car have a catalytic convertor? If so, I would check that it has not gone bad. When they do, they essentially clog your exhaust, which leads to a lose of power. The simplest test that I know of is to remove the cat and see if the car runs normally (if you can handle a little noise).

Make sure you report back when you figure it out.

Good luck...

[boxeswithknobs]

Wow, very scary. Hoping it's a clogged cat - had that happen once after plug wires failed and car dumped some gas into cat, which overheated, rotted and clogged insides, leaving me stalled at the Grapevine/I-5. Very unpleasant week. No crunchy sounds, car just went from 70mph down to unable to get above 30mph or accelerate. The extra backpressure also will cause engine to overheat.

I used a dremel cutting disc to cut a slot in front of the cat (no clearance to remove in truck stop parking lot. that verified that the cat was the issue - but made it possible to drive the car again back to the shop).

[John in Simi Valley]

sethg,
From your story, the car ran fine until after the alternator was replaced and distributor (ignition timing) was altered. Then the initial symptom was overheating, loss of power, and now it doesn't run.

My general rule of thumb is to check the SIMPLE things first.
Your battery checks out okay, but engine doesn't crank and seems like a loss of power. I SUGGEST cleaning the battery posts and terminals, make sure you have a known good connection.

Most of the time when an alternator doesn't charge, its because the brushes are overly worn. Changing the alternator will certainly remedy that, but it's way less expensive to just remove the regulator (2 screws) and check the brushes. At the most, it's a 5 minute job.

Back to your problem:
Incorrect ignition timing will cause your engine to over heat and create a loss of power exactly as you described. DO NOT ASSUME that the shop you took the car to actually performed the task correctly. Many mechanics today do not know how to time these engines and tend to look at the front of the engine for the timing marks. The marks are actually at the flywheel and are difficult to find because you have to time-strobe a little peak-hole to barely see the timing mark. Settings are: distributor vacuum diaphragm is inactive, vacuum line plugged, engine at operating temp, revving at 2200 rpm; the mark should be seen in the little window.

Check your coolant at the bleed screw. Make sure you don't have massive pockets of air which will cause the water pump cavitation (impeller spins in a pocket of air).

Pull the spark plugs, READ THEM. They have a wonderful story to tell and an excellent place to start diagnosing. If the fuel mixture is lean it will cause over heating and the trace evidence of leanness will show up on the plugs as very light color, maybe white deposits. If the plugs are black with some white spots, it means there is plenty of fuel, but over heating --> means it's most likely a timing problem.

That's where I'd start.
Good luck and don't hesitate to ask for help.
Just remember, when describing your problem, be as detailed as you can. If you leave a critical piece of info out, it will mislead all of us.

Your lesson learned: Before you alter the position of the distributor, MARK IT so you can get back to where you were. Some White-Out with the little brush is cheap and simple. Also, learn how to time the ignition yourself.

Best wishes, let us know!

[KenB]

I agree with John. The beginning of this problem is that your distributor was not timed correctly by the shop. Or maybe it was but they didn't tighten it up enough and it soon came loose and off its setting.

Anyhow, then it sounds like you kept driving it poorly timed, heated it up a bit (though if it didn't ever get into red I wouldn't worry about it), and now perhaps your distributor, loose in its slot is so mistimed that your car can't even run.

And, perhaps then in your frustrated efforts to get it going again, start it up, etc., you have run your battery down.

If I were under your hood, the first place I would look would be at that distributor. I'd grab a hold of it and see that it was tightly in its slot. If not, there's your first issue. Even if it is tight, I'd want to re-check its timing--with a new battery perhaps needed to perform this task, though you could get a good "rough" placement using the notch on the body of the distributor itself, which is visible with the cap off.

Good luck,
KenB

[fidosd9]

Yes how you describe it it sounds like your engine locked up as other suggest
Check if the engine is not stuck if the car has manual trans put it in 3rd gear and push the car ill be Little heavy that's because the car is in gear ans pay attention if the motor turns over if its ok check all fusses ans the reays by the fuse box and and also your battery cables have good clean connections to battery ground and to stater

[sethg]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I spent the fall finishing a degree and might have a chance to check out the car finally.

Known conditions that have been mentioned as possible causes are:
- Battery and alternator connections are OK.
- Battery state of charge is very good. Also tried to start with different battery.
- Auxillary electronics operated on last attempt.
- Coolant level is high in the reservoir. Coolant level was lower at time of engine failure.
- Oil level is OK.
- Mechanic told me at time of service that he timed the engine at 2200 rpm using the flywheel mark.
- Spark plugs not inspected yet
- Engine has not been turned manually yet.
- Last start attempt with a full battery results in a click, but no starter rotation. Starter has not been evaluated. Starter worked without symptoms of failure until the engine stopped working.

Looking forward to investigating this issue and will post an update.

[sethg]

News: the car starts! Cleaned the battery terminals and charged for a couple days before trying. The starter fired up fine now, and with a little coaxing the car idled by itself.

It was a nice 35 degrees outside today, so exhaust leaks were visible. Good amount of exhaust in the engine bay, increasing with time after starting. Likewise exhaust gets thick after a couple minutes.


Here are a few quick video clips of the car's first run in almost 5 months.

http://sethgudmundson.com/vid/528i_diag1.WMV
http://sethgudmundson.com/vid/528i_diag2.WMV
http://sethgudmundson.com/vid/528i_diag3.WMV
http://sethgudmundson.com/vid/528i_diag4.WMV

[Jeff Dennis]

Good looking car time may be well spent doing a full tune up, checking for air leaks and cleaning the ground wires.